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krytellaI tweeted a bit about character archtypes in ships and connecting with them across different ships and fandoms:
"Saw someone on DW who’s not on here describe a pairing as “Goodposture Ironedshirt/Disreputable Smirkingman” and now I want to collect all the lovely and evocative names transformative fandom uses to talk about character tropes" (referring to this post)
"I can definitely get down with this ship as long as the uptight one isn’t ridiculous about it but the true ship of my heart, my warm and fuzzy blanket, is charming disaster/competent awkward nerd"
And then there was a little discussion about whether competent awkward nerd/charming disaster is in fact a subset of Goodposture Ironedshirt/Disreputable Smirkingman. When I see people talking about shipping, especially iddy or what they think of as tropey fic that they either love or hate, there's usually a pleasing contrast between the two characters. But we don't want them to be complete opposites on every possible thing, they need something to connect over. So one of the ways I distinguish ship types to myself is which contrasts are being played up. Of course, that can vary within a pairing depending on the author's interpretation of the characters, too.
So yeah, this is basically a taxonomy discussion, and if you feel like this way of looking at things is too focused on binaries then you probably won't connect with it. But it works for me.
To me, Goodposture Ironedshirt/Disreputable Smirkingman is characterized primarily by the character's relationships to rules and propriety, and also usually to how emotionally demonstrative they are. This is the most popular fanon characterization of Arthur/Eames from Inception. Goodposture Ironedshirt can show up by himself as a character who I saw a tumblr post about once that I can't find again: "The Ghost." The Ghost is always a white man who's got a smaller part in canon but gets read into a lot by fans. He's uptight, particular, fussy and possibly effeminate about his clothing and hygiene, and smaller and slighter than any counterpart he's shipped with. Basically, fanon Hux from Star Wars, though he's not paired with a Disreputable Smirkingman. Kylux isn't my bag so I'm not even sure quite how Kylo Ren is usually characterized to be paired with him, but I'm betting it focuses on his physical strength and unrestrained emotionality.
My favorite ship dynamics are contrasting in aspects like outgoing/reserved, active/passive, "smooth"/awkward, stoic/expressive, serious/fun-loving, but not focused on contrasts in competence, gender coding (different from gender expression? This is hard to explain), height, or rule-following (I like characters who feel pressure to fit in but not characters who are deeply internally compelled to order).
Fic and general media fandom has coined some excellent terms for talking about characterization tropes: spacetoaster, the aforementioned Ghost, Golden Retriever Boyfriend. We should keep coming up with more! I don't know how to end this ramble so let's move on to the personal section of the Twitter thread:
"The meta analysis of this is that these are the animus and anima of my own personality?"
"What’s wild about getting older is the number of things you realize were vastly warped about your perception of yourself your entire life, like would it have been possible to embrace my chaos in my 20s and if I did who would I be now?"
Recently, one of my friends that I know through tech activism was shocked to find that I consider myself an introvert. I mean, I do use what I think is a more original Jungian version of the term -- it's about being focused on my own internal world and also being more reflective than active. I am a lot more about not doing things than doing things. I used to think I was "quiet." In retrospect, I have never in my life been quiet, not even when I was a super awkward teenager. But I have a sister who's very, very loud and I grew up comparing myself to her.
So I always saw myself as the awkward nerd, I guess. Yet somehow in my whole life I have had zero relationships with charming disasters. I thought because I was so focused on the intensity of what was going on in my head that I don't usually show to other people, I must be the awkward nerd and to have value I must fill out the rest of the archetype: I have to be together, organized, conscientious. That just because I'm "together" in interpersonal emotional interactions, that should somehow correlate with having a clean house, paying all my bills on time, and being able to finish any fun project I think about.
Reader, it does not.
The avoidance spiral from not living up to that makes it even harder to keep on top of everything, actually. I'm curious to find out what happens if I stop trying so hard.
Something typically associated with extraversion that I appreciate when I see it in other people is being interested in others, focusing on them. It's something that makes someone a pleasure to be around just as much as purely being "fun," and definitely more surely than being full of brilliant ideas which just makes you annoying when it falls flat.
So something I'm going to try to do this year is be a little more chaotic. To forgive myself for dropping things sometimes in hopes that will help me actually do the things that are important with less anxiety. And to be genuinely curious about other people's inner realities so that we can actually connect.
"Saw someone on DW who’s not on here describe a pairing as “Goodposture Ironedshirt/Disreputable Smirkingman” and now I want to collect all the lovely and evocative names transformative fandom uses to talk about character tropes" (referring to this post)
"I can definitely get down with this ship as long as the uptight one isn’t ridiculous about it but the true ship of my heart, my warm and fuzzy blanket, is charming disaster/competent awkward nerd"
And then there was a little discussion about whether competent awkward nerd/charming disaster is in fact a subset of Goodposture Ironedshirt/Disreputable Smirkingman. When I see people talking about shipping, especially iddy or what they think of as tropey fic that they either love or hate, there's usually a pleasing contrast between the two characters. But we don't want them to be complete opposites on every possible thing, they need something to connect over. So one of the ways I distinguish ship types to myself is which contrasts are being played up. Of course, that can vary within a pairing depending on the author's interpretation of the characters, too.
So yeah, this is basically a taxonomy discussion, and if you feel like this way of looking at things is too focused on binaries then you probably won't connect with it. But it works for me.
To me, Goodposture Ironedshirt/Disreputable Smirkingman is characterized primarily by the character's relationships to rules and propriety, and also usually to how emotionally demonstrative they are. This is the most popular fanon characterization of Arthur/Eames from Inception. Goodposture Ironedshirt can show up by himself as a character who I saw a tumblr post about once that I can't find again: "The Ghost." The Ghost is always a white man who's got a smaller part in canon but gets read into a lot by fans. He's uptight, particular, fussy and possibly effeminate about his clothing and hygiene, and smaller and slighter than any counterpart he's shipped with. Basically, fanon Hux from Star Wars, though he's not paired with a Disreputable Smirkingman. Kylux isn't my bag so I'm not even sure quite how Kylo Ren is usually characterized to be paired with him, but I'm betting it focuses on his physical strength and unrestrained emotionality.
My favorite ship dynamics are contrasting in aspects like outgoing/reserved, active/passive, "smooth"/awkward, stoic/expressive, serious/fun-loving, but not focused on contrasts in competence, gender coding (different from gender expression? This is hard to explain), height, or rule-following (I like characters who feel pressure to fit in but not characters who are deeply internally compelled to order).
Fic and general media fandom has coined some excellent terms for talking about characterization tropes: spacetoaster, the aforementioned Ghost, Golden Retriever Boyfriend. We should keep coming up with more! I don't know how to end this ramble so let's move on to the personal section of the Twitter thread:
"The meta analysis of this is that these are the animus and anima of my own personality?"
"What’s wild about getting older is the number of things you realize were vastly warped about your perception of yourself your entire life, like would it have been possible to embrace my chaos in my 20s and if I did who would I be now?"
Recently, one of my friends that I know through tech activism was shocked to find that I consider myself an introvert. I mean, I do use what I think is a more original Jungian version of the term -- it's about being focused on my own internal world and also being more reflective than active. I am a lot more about not doing things than doing things. I used to think I was "quiet." In retrospect, I have never in my life been quiet, not even when I was a super awkward teenager. But I have a sister who's very, very loud and I grew up comparing myself to her.
So I always saw myself as the awkward nerd, I guess. Yet somehow in my whole life I have had zero relationships with charming disasters. I thought because I was so focused on the intensity of what was going on in my head that I don't usually show to other people, I must be the awkward nerd and to have value I must fill out the rest of the archetype: I have to be together, organized, conscientious. That just because I'm "together" in interpersonal emotional interactions, that should somehow correlate with having a clean house, paying all my bills on time, and being able to finish any fun project I think about.
Reader, it does not.
The avoidance spiral from not living up to that makes it even harder to keep on top of everything, actually. I'm curious to find out what happens if I stop trying so hard.
Something typically associated with extraversion that I appreciate when I see it in other people is being interested in others, focusing on them. It's something that makes someone a pleasure to be around just as much as purely being "fun," and definitely more surely than being full of brilliant ideas which just makes you annoying when it falls flat.
So something I'm going to try to do this year is be a little more chaotic. To forgive myself for dropping things sometimes in hopes that will help me actually do the things that are important with less anxiety. And to be genuinely curious about other people's inner realities so that we can actually connect.
no subject
Date: 2021-01-03 10:21 am (UTC)With regards to ship dynamics, I find that I adapt a lot to different relationships, including friendships. Like, with Kes I can be the charming disaster because I know she's got shit under control, but I tend to be more put-together with rocket bae because they have massive charming disaster energy and also it fits well with our d/s dynamic. Real people are obviously more complex and code-switch more than fictional characters; I think the kind of ship dynamics you're talking about often appeal to me because they exaggerate a persona or part of me that I'm interested in exploring, even (especially) if that's not how I usually present myself.
no subject
Date: 2021-01-06 07:59 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-01-06 08:13 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-01-06 10:01 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2021-01-03 06:04 pm (UTC)I think I disagree(?) that the Mayo Ghost is GI on his own. Or maybe, when he is on his own, he contracts into fussiness and becomes the Mayo Ghost?
Goodposture Ironedshirt/Disreputable Smirkingman is characterized primarily by the character's relationships to rules and propriety, and also usually to how emotionally demonstrative they are.
Aww I love the contrast in emotional demonstrativeness, YES. I think a classic example of this ship dynamic would be Fraser/Ray K. in due South, where, sure, Ray *seems* more demonstrative, but that's more "emotionally volatile", while Fraser is buttoned-up and reserved but the *depths* of his emotional reactions are massive. A canon f/f example is Harrow/Gideon in The Locked Tomb trilogy.
Anyway, one thing I deeply love about Finn/Poe is how they can fulfill this dynamic, then flip it, then discard it altogether. ♥
I like your New Year's Resolution, too! Impressive.
no subject
Date: 2021-01-06 08:05 am (UTC)I love the dynamic where a character is emotionally volatile and demonstrative and talkative to hide all the things that really matter to them. Like it's kind of a distraction technique. Talk all the time and make big gestures and people never look for what you're not saying.